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September 19, 2008

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Dont Buy It

Hi John, I wanted your opinion on the fact that the average price of home in Canada has declined for 3 straight months over last year. In August the average price of a house declined 5% over last years price. I remember reading in a previous post from you that the US's prices have also dropped 5% year/year. Isnt troubling that the US and Canadas average prices have declined by the same amount?

Don't Buy it

Sorry forgot to post a link to the above.


Home prices take a hit

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080916.RHOUSING16/TPStory/Business

John Pasalis

Don't Buy It, you ask a very good question. It is definitely troubling to read that real estate prices are dropping in both countries, but it's important to note that the cause for the declines in both countries are very different.

When looking at the decline in Canada, we see that it is largely driven by declines in several west coast cities that were overvalued. If there is a housing bubble in Canada, it's in those cities. There is no national housing bubble.

We need to be cautious when looking at national statistics because what's going on in Western Canada is probably not very relevant in Toronto. The biggest threat to real estate markets in those cities may be the collapse of their real estate bubbles. A real estate bubble bursting isn't an issue in Toronto because we're not in a bubble. But unlike Western Canada, we have reason to be more concerned about our economy than they do. How is the slowdown in Ontario's economy going to impact Toronto's real estate market? That's the important question we should be thinking about.

CinToronto

Hello all: It doesn't make sense to talk about real estate without discussing what is going on in the financial markets. I find it hard to believe that the turmoil won't affect virtually everything for the next while. My grandmother knows what's going on. Never mind Friday's recovery, Canadians will notice that their investments haven't made any money in the last few years. This is no longer just an Ontario issue.

Dont Buy It

Hi John,

I disagree with you that there is no bubble in Toronto. Prices have be increasing in Toronto much faster than wages in the last 10 years, and its simply not affordable.

I agree we must look at the Ontario economy. If 1991 was any indication, a recession in Ontario is usually followed by a big decline in Real Estate prices.

Consumer confidence plays a big role in the Real Estate market, and it is hurting right now. Talks of Global Recessions/Depressions and investment banks bankrupting, stock markets plunging, talks of falling housing prices in Canada, thousands losing their jobs in Ontario, all make consumers think Real Estate is in for a big correction. Look at the poll you had on your site and you will see that most people believe that Real Estate is not a good investment right now in Toronto. With all the doom and gloom in the media, most people I talk to think the same.

Patrice

Hello "Don't buy it"

So if most people believe certain things to be true, Jon should change his mind?

No matter the subject, never forget that most people thought the earth was flat at a certain point. The fact that many people think a certain way doesn't make it anymore true.

I also think that the market might suffer a big correction; but i respect Jon opinion.

Dont Buy It,

Hi Patrice,

You should learn how to read. I didn't mean I don't respect Johns opinion. I meant to underline the importance of "Consumer Confidence" in Toronto Real Estate. There is alot of uncertainty of what will happen to the economy in the next 12 months. If most people are not confident becuase of the Recession we are in and believe that a price correction is coming then they will be less willing to pay top dollar for a house, thus adding a downward pressure on prices.

Don't underestimate the "herd mentality" aspect to Real Estate in both a "boom" and "bust" market. Things can go from "hot" to cold" very quickly as we have seen based on low consumer confidence.

Dont Buy It

John,

This is what I mean. Stories like this in Todays Globe and Mail will only make people panic.

Canada could be headed for a housing and mortgage meltdown similar to the one that has devasted the U.S. economy, Merrill Lynch warned Wednesday

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080924.wmortgage0924/BNStory/Business/home


Torontos market is in the classic start of a correction. Growth of 10-15% in prices over a sustained period (2004-2007). Then falling sales(March 08) dramatic increase in listings (April - Sept 08) slowing prices (April - July) and then price decreases in the city of Toronto (Aug 08). Combine this with the crazy amount of new condos on the market - of which more than half are owned by investors, combined with the loss of hundreds of very high paying jobs on Bay Street - combined with the loss of billions of dollars in Blue Toronto's stock portfolio's.

And we have a perfect storm. This pig is going down. Good luck

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