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September 25, 2008

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Patrice

Very well explained and very persuasive.

I'm anticipating with impatience the comments from the partisans of the bubble theory.

Boulder Condos

Very interesting stats and always interesting to compare opinions with our neighbors to the north. The market in the states is obviously on shaky ground but it is very diverse with bubbles and appreciation rates vary greatly from area to area.

Perfecthouse

Where can we find similar Annual increase charts for other markets - say in BC and Alberta for comparison?

Adding those charts will show how different the GTA market is.

Dont Buy It

Hi John,

While I agree with you that the Toronto market is not exactly the same now as in the early 1990's. In many regards it is worse.

1. Canadians are more overleverage now than they were in the late 80's/90's making them extremly susceptable to the slightest slowdown in the Economy

2. Consumer Confidence "Herd Effect": Uncertain economic times and constantly being bombarded with bad news has negatively affect Canadian Consumer Confidence in Real Estate.

1. According to an analysis this week by Merrill Lynch, Canadian families carry an average net debt load that was 6.3 percent of their disposable income, more than in the U.K. and the same as the peak in the U.S. This makes Canadians much more susceptable to even the slightest downturn in the economy, combined with the fact that, most economists believe Ontario is in a Recession.

2. The love affair with Real Estate in Canada is over. We are going through what is historically the most uncertain economic times since the Great Depression. Headline news constantly talks of the possibility of another 1929 Depression, Giant Investment Banks Folding and requiring trillions to bail out, Housing Prices in Canada plunging, Global Recessions, Ontario already in a Recession, thousands losing their jobs in Ontario (GM, Ford etc.), the list goes on. All this stories have been headline news and have affected peoples confidence. Combine that with the negative media on Real Estate.

For example this week Merrill Lynch wrote an anaylsis saying that a Housing Crash was possible if not likly in Canada which made headline news in Canada, forcing Steven Harper to do damage control.

http://cfcr.ml.com/GetDoc.aspx?e=we%2f5N0iuZK6i0yToLhuauIHZFdKmBw5nBhIlTGqkN%2fyvsisdXbdtEgw5eRyin0Z3%2fVA03LtWMfy8alkPgH7TSA%3d%3d&ctbDocIDs=10769189&v=1&m=XPCq%2bVyX27bchJxbYHbpknemGiM%3d

I opened my mailbox yesterday to get my Macleans magazine this month and see on the cover "Canadas Looming Real Estate Crisis: Why Prices might soon fall through the floor"

http://www.macleans.ca/business/markets/article.jsp?content=20080924_24660_24660

Canadians are being bombarded with bad news and this has ultimatly affected their confidence in Real Estate.

Al Dharsee

Excellent article. With Mortgage Lenders tightening up on credit, home prices will fall in my opinion.

Rob

Patrice - please identify how this is 'well-explained and persuasive'.

I don't have time to deal with platitudes and will only put these forth but there are myriad reasons why I feel you're shortsighted here.

Tal's report from April didn't see this coming, so extrapolating on his 5% correction in Toronto is something of an error, on. Let's listen to Tal next month when all of this shakes down -- until then basing what happening now and in the coming months on what happened this spring is ridiculous.

Rubin's perspective is also a tad rosey - when has a bailout ever resulted in a positive for the taxpayer anywhere [short or mid term where is needed]?

The herd mentality is done and hopefully people will return to something approximating 'system intelligence'.


John Pasalis

@Perfecthouse

I prepared most of these charts, I'm not sure if they are available for other cities.

@Don't Buy It

I agree, consumer confidence is a major problem and may very make things worse than they have to be. Part of the problem includes reports like the Merrill Lynch report you mentioned.

Firstly, we can't take an economists opinion regarding a national slow down and extend those same conclusions to our own market. These same economists in a previous report noted that real estate prices in Canada are overvalued, but Toronto is balanced. So what applies to Canada as a whole, many not apply to Toronto.

The report is also not very convincing. Apparently the authors aren't even convinced. They aren't telling us it's the Tipping Point, they are simply putting the question out there.
It's also worth noting that this isn't an exhaustive report that analyzes all economic factors that may impact our market. It looks at one, household financial deficit and suggests from this one variable that we may be at the tipping point.

The following analysis from Scotiabank economists questions how Wolf decided to measure leverage and provides a more balanced analysis of our market, instead of just focusing on one economic variable.
http://tinyurl.com/4n6u73

@Rob,
Unless I'm missing something, Tal's comment which I linked to was made in August not in April.

With respect to Rubin's comment, it may be a tad bit rosy but we are not the taxpayers paying for this bailout

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